According to the head of U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, he has “opened this door wider than many thought possible” for veterans suffering from serious mental illnesses.
In an interview with The Resilient Show, which was published last week on the podcast, VA Secretary Doug Collins discussed his interest in psychoedelic therapy as well as cross-departmental efforts to progress clinical trials for substances like ibogaine or MDMA.
He said that despite the fact that it is difficult to get FDA approval for clinical trials, there are still areas where we could boost them.
“I’m the first VA secretary—actually, in a Cabinet meeting about a month and a half ago—to actually bring up psychedelics in a Cabinet meeting,” Collins said. I think we need to consider putting alternatives in the spotlight. VA will do its job. “We’ll do everything within the law.
You’re right, I haven’t done anything. Nothing. You know, marijuana—it’s just never been… But what I am seeing, and we see in clinical trials, is that some of this is working,” he said. I don’t understand how it works. I don’t know why it necessarily works, but I see that getting a treatment—having counseling many times attached to it—we’re watching these numbers go down in people, and they’re able to live normal lives. “They’re not in situations they are in.”
“For myself, I ask: Why wouldn’t you look at that?” asked the secretary. I believe that we should go a little further.
VA will not be ready to allow people access to psychedelics through a prescription by a VA doctor for some time, but they have been working closely with FDA and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on “how we can make certain clinical trials more readily available.”
Collins stated, “I would like to have it done in a controlled setting.” He added that he wanted to add a cautionary note.
“One of the bigger concerns I have…is sometimes things come out and they’re perceived as the savior to everything, and they go to places that may or may not be good,” he said. I also just want to be honest. Do not be tempted by everything shiny. It’s not all good.
“What I am trying to achieve is that I want my veterans to be able to find treatments, which work and are safe for them, as well as understand their consequences. Then I will get them out to people as fast as I can,” said he. I’ve opened this door. “I’ve probably opened the door wider than we thought. We are going to get it done the right way.”
Collins explained that VA was “not recreationalizing” these drugs, but said they were “having some good” clinical trial results on ibogaine MDMA and Psilocybin.
They’re extremely controlled. They administer the dose. They are in a secure environment. They’re relaxed. He said they were being kept on guard for possible events. They’re allowing veterans to discuss things and deal with issues that you or I cannot.
If this works, I’d like to see them be free of all drugs. Collins added, “Let them go where they’re comfortable.” But if the need for drugs is necessary, then that’s okay. That’s okay. We need to be careful that this is not a reflexive reaction.
“It cannot be reflexive. Right? That’s become my concern a little bit, and I want to make sure we’re not reflexively saying, ‘Well, I’ve got, you know, 30 people on a caseload here, here’s your X drug. Take this, it will calm you down and everything will be okay. This would be similar to us in many respects, believing someone with a high fever is just a case of taking Tylenol and Advil. The fever will go down, so I’ll solve the problem. “No, you only mask the fever.”
The secretary then talked about how the administration is working together, and he mentioned that HHS Sec. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had personally reached out “to begin talking about psychedelics.”
We went to the two offices together. We shared people—the labor. Collins stated that “it’s a completely different function.”
Last week, the secretary also reiterated that he’s “very open” to expanding access to psychedelics therapy for veterans—emphasizing that he’s intent on finding ways to “cure” people with serious mental health conditions and not just treat their surface-level symptoms.
Collins noted that VA either internally or through private partnerships is actively conducting about a dozen clinical trials into “various different substances that we’re seeing actually really good results on,” including one based at VA Bronx Health Care that’s investigating MDMA-assisted therapy with “actually really, really good results.”
During that interview, Collins was also shown a recent clip of Navy SEAL veteran Rob O’Neill, who killed Osama Bin Laden, talking about his theory that the federal government has intentionally avoided providing access to psychedelic medicine because cures are less profitable than long-term treatments. Collins said, “I am going to say right now, this secretary for veterans affairs wants to heal people.”
Meanwhile, earlier this month a GOP-controlled House committee approved an amendment attached to a must-pass defense bill that would require a “progress report” on an ongoing psychedelic therapy pilot program for active duty military service members and veterans.
While Congress was notably receptive to research on psychedelics in recent sessions the House Rules Committee blocked last week a bipartisan addition to the spending bill, led by Rep. Morgan Luttrell, (R-TX), that would have provided DOD with another $10 million for clinical trials to investigate the therapeutic potentials of substances like ibogaine or psilocybin.
Separately, bipartisan congressional lawmakers recently met with the VA secretary to discuss pathways to provide access to psychedelic medicine as an alternative treatment option for conditions such as PTSD.
After requesting the meeting with Collins in May, Reps. Lou Correa (D-CA) and Jack Bergman (R-MI)—founding co-chairs of the Congressional Psychedelic Advancing Therapies (PATH) Caucus—said the three had a productive conversations about advancing psychedelics therapy for the veteran community.
Collins stands out as an VA Secretary who is especially interested in exploring the potential for substances like ibogaine or MDMA to relieve serious mental conditions. He coordinates with officials such as Kennedy, head of HHS who recently stated that he aims to release plant-based medicines within a year.
Former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) separately said the psychedelic ibogaine represents an “astonishing breakthrough” in the nation’s current “sick care system” that’s left people with serious mental health conditions without access to promising alternative treatment options—and he intends to use his influence to advance the issue.
Separately, the U.S. House of Representatives recently included an amendment to a spending bill from Correa and Bergman that would encourage VA to support research into the benefits of psychedelics in treating medical conditions commonly affecting military veterans.
Collins, for his part, also disclosed in April that he had an “eye-opening” talk with Kennedy about the therapeutic potential of psychedelic medicine. He said that he is open to having vouchers provided by the government to pay for psychedelic therapies for veterans receiving services from outside the VA, as Congress looks at pathways to access.
The secretary’s visit to the psychedelics research center came about a month after the VA secretary met with a military veteran who’s become an advocate for psilocybin access to discuss the therapeutic potential of psychedelic medicine for the veteran community.
Correa and Bergman separately introduced a bill in April to provide $30 million in funding annually to establish psychedelics-focused “centers for excellence” at VA facilities, where veterans could receive novel treatment involving substances like psilocybin, MDMA and ibogaine.
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Bergman has also expressed optimism about the prospects of advancing psychedelics reform under Trump, arguing that the administration’s efforts to cut spending and the federal workforce will give agencies “spines” to tackle such complex issues.
Kennedy, for his part, also said in April that he had a “wonderful experience” with LSD at 15 years old, which he took because he thought he’d be able to see dinosaurs, as portrayed in a comic book he was a fan of.
Kennedy criticised the FDA in October last year for its “suppression” of psychedelics and an array of other problems that he said were akin to “a war on public health” which would cease under Trump’s administration.
In December, VA separately announced that it’s providing $1.5 million in funding to study the efficacy of MDMA-assisted therapy for veterans with PTSD and alcohol use disorder (AUD).
Last year, VA’s Yehuda also touted an initial study the agency funded that produced “stunning and robust results” from its first-ever clinical trial into MDMA therapy.
Shereef Enahal, the ex-VA Under Secretary of Health who served under Shereef in VA from 1996 to 1999 said “it was very encouraging” when Trump chose Kennedy to head HHS and has now supported psychedelics. And he hoped to work with him on the issue if he stayed on for the next administration, but that didn’t pan out.
Carlosemmaskype, Apollo and other photographers provided the images.
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